Not a biologist but unlike some judges, know that men have XY chromosomes in every type of cell with a nucleus. And women, XX. There are literally trillions of human cells. So it’s sensible for sports competitions that are geared for men and women to compete separately, should take this into account. It’s what our Progressive betters often refer to as science. If sports bodies want to have co-Ed competition, I’m fine with that. But it has absolutely nothing to do with how one identifies. I’m also find with that. Plenty of sports where men and women can compete fairly. Chess, shooting, darts perhaps, skateboarding, but boxing would not be one of them. Just my opinion, others may and do feel differently.
Formula1 racing, billiards, poker…..? Its activities where weight, muscle mass, lung capacity and some other physical differences between the biological sexes on average convey a competitive disadvantage. The new Title IX changes will need to revert if we desire fairness. Amazing how much progress can be reversed in such short order.
There's no nuance. Imene Khelif is a male, and his male physical advantage started developing in utero. Having hyperandrogenism does not make him a female. He has XY chromosomes in every cell of his body and this was established at fertilization. Being male or female is not based on testosterone levels and your initial reaction to watching a mediocre male boxer pound an Olympic female boxer was a valid reaction. These guys are getting off on pounding women. Even those with DSD's, or disorders of sexual development, are either male or female. We are not in a new world as the trans lingua malarkey has not changed the fundamentals of biology and sex, and I will never negotiate my rights as a human being and my boundaries as a female. These whining dudes that aren't good enough to compete with other men can pack sand.
The Trans ideology movement is a threat to gay people, to females and to adult trans ppl who just want to pass and live their lives out of the glare of this raging controversy. The Trans cultists are not about standing up for the legal rights of trans citizens, but rather about queer ideology that requires imposing their untethered from reality ideas on children . It’s about bullying all ppl but especially gays and women into silence for fear of being called a transphobe and cancelled.They declared war on the rest of society, on children and parents . Well war they now have and wars have casualties.
Almost all these cases are male to female even though there are approximately the same number of female to male trans.
We have to keep it simple and not get bogged down in discussing testosterone levels, muscle mass and bone density and structure, To do that already cedes the ground to the activists.No males in female sports and spaces . Period.
Keeping sports and spaces safe for females is THE overriding issue.
I’m of the opinion that athletes with elevated testosterone levels should be excluded whether from endogenous production or from doping. This keeps it a consistent policy and adherent to the principle of safety first and foremost. It’s not this athlete “ faultl” but It’s the correct decision. The world boxing assoc already excluded her . I’m told the IOC allowed it to appease the Trans activists who have outsized political, and financial backing.
I would like to hear this athlete defend her winning intellectually when she has doping levels of testosterone coursing through her veins at all times. Not very sporting of her.. Life is not fair
Thanks for engaging .Ive been a real fan , I only found you after 10-7.,
Thank you for your wonderful and powerful support of our people and the State of Israel.
She’s apparently XY with a genetic defect that interferes with the body’s ability to deal with male hormones. These people don’t have normal male genitalia (may be internal) so they look female. But they still have a strength advantage.
There is a reason why men don't complain when a transgender man (person with a vagina transitions to a man by surgery or drugs, or gender identity; or person born with xx chromosomes decides to compete against a person born with xy chromosomes) competes against them, and we all know the reason.
It happens very rarely. It’s almost always males identifying as females.
Riley Gaines spoke of a race where Lia Thomas ( Male selfIDing as female) as well as another swimmer female to male ID were both in the pool with the other females.!
I am simple minded as a college degreed biologist: a person with XY genes is a male gender; a person with XX genes is a female gender.
There is no argument that the XY configuration results in a person with greater inherent muscular strength than the XX. If one wishes to identify as a female for reasons
of gender dysphoria, I have no issue - when it comes to competition involving strength, I strongly object!
I would suggest that true females simply default to the male boxer rather than risk their lives… that way, the not-female boxers will achieve their medals by default rather than risking the lives of true females. The medals would then be of no value or significance!
XY chromosomes means 99.999% of the time you are a man. That gives you high testosterone levels. If you have androgen insensitivity you could have rarely a female outward appearance, XY chromosomes and high androgen levels but no uterus or ovaries , with undescended testes and you would look like a typical female externally. But no menstruation etc. This is exceptionally rare. These people don’t face big muscles and a male body habitus.
I’m sad this is where you feel you have to have a delicate touch. This is clearly a threat to women and should not be allowed. This isn’t right period and I won’t tiptoe around it playing chromosome games. It will stop when women stop engaging it. I’m more concerned about the treatment of Israeli athletes at the games and the threat of attacks from all angles of the Middle East.
Interesting but I’m not sure I’m buying the whole hyperandrogenism story. Who is saying he/she has this affliction (illness, condition) and what proof is there? Also, you are correct, there are too many unanswered questions to arrive at the truth just yet. What is the IBA test? Does this boxer have male genitalia?
I am sceptical at this point and I think I will wait and see if more information comes to light.
By your explanation, it sounds as if this person had a cryptorchidism that wasn’t treated as a child and was brought up as a female. If it’s true it is likely a sad case due to lack of medical care or the expense of medical care. Also, another person made an interesting comment the other day that got me thinking. They said being gay in Algeria is technically illegal and literally dangerous to your survival due to it being an Islamic country. So, if you happen to be a gay man and exhibit some noticeable female traits, you have three options: live as a heterosexual male and hope no one calls you out, flee the country or live as a female. This is pure speculation on my part, but maybe this boxer is a gay man and in order to survive, and I don’t blame her (him), she lives as a female and the IBA doesn’t want to say anything about their testing that might put this young persons live in jeopardy. I know it’s a long shot, but who knows…
It’s more than cryptorchidism. Khelif has a disorder in the development of external genitalia so no penis and something like a rudimentary vagina. So they thought this is a girl. Well until puberty when Khelif’d testicles started producing testosterone like any male would.
Think of it like this. There are 4 levels for sexual development. 1) chromosomes 2) internal genitalia (testes until late fetal life, ovaries, uterus, cervix 3) external genitalia (penis, vagina, clitoris) and 4) pubertal changes what is called secondary sexual characteristics like breasts , beard, muscles, menstruation etc.
A disorder can occur at any level. Rare but possible. I believe the boxers disorder is at level 2 in my scheme.
I’m a pediatrician. I studied this stuff and kind of thought of the 4 Levels long ago because I find it absolutely fascinating. Although all 4 levels are usually totally aligned there are finite cases where they are not. This has nothing to do with trans which would be another stage where you switch out your hormones. Which is a whole other thing.
Unlike yourself, I don’t have a medical background. I am a retired police detective so I look for a combination of evidence, human nature and motive. By all appearances, the boxer appears to have strong male physiology. It did appear (visually) that the Algerian boxer had a physical advantage over the Italian boxer. I also realize with the billions of humans in this world some are going to have unusual or rare physiology. With the lack of actual facts and evidence I will agree with your finding due to your education and experience. It’s been interesting chatting with you. Have a good day.
You must move in interesting circles. No one I know would call that butcher "moderate." There is no such thing as a "moderate" terrorist. Assume this was from the progressives or coastal elites. There were both a two state solution and a ceasefire before Hamas attacked. There would be a ceasefire if they returned the hostages and surrendered as did the Nazis and the Japanese.
SURRENDER. That word seems anathema to the wooly headed leaders around the world.
As to the boxer. That is NOT a female. It might not be a male either but it is clearly NOT a female. Look at it. Look at the structure of the arms. Look at the jawline. If anything it's more male than female but it is not a female...period. We should not be held captive by the deluded who think chormosomes can be changed with plastic surgery and make up.
I call it an it because it is clearly not male or female. What is the proper pronoun for a hermaphrodite?
Boxing has a history of being subject to controversy regarding reglementation issues particularly with its IOC governing body. No surprise here. Emotions aside, having watched boxing matches for more than 50 years, it looked from the get go that the Italian fighter was clearly in danger in that ring. She made a very wise decision to abandon the fight after the Algerian landed that hard right hand.
The very notion that I am concerned about offending my Trans friends by posting about this on my fb page, and your headline of "stepping into the lion's den," reflect that, as a 72-year-old feminist, I am not easy with navigating this question. I do know that women must be safe to compete in sports. Your post, as well as the comments by Disa sacks, are very helpful and informed.
Not a biologist but unlike some judges, know that men have XY chromosomes in every type of cell with a nucleus. And women, XX. There are literally trillions of human cells. So it’s sensible for sports competitions that are geared for men and women to compete separately, should take this into account. It’s what our Progressive betters often refer to as science. If sports bodies want to have co-Ed competition, I’m fine with that. But it has absolutely nothing to do with how one identifies. I’m also find with that. Plenty of sports where men and women can compete fairly. Chess, shooting, darts perhaps, skateboarding, but boxing would not be one of them. Just my opinion, others may and do feel differently.
Shooting is one sport where women typically excel over their male counterparts.
Formula1 racing, billiards, poker…..? Its activities where weight, muscle mass, lung capacity and some other physical differences between the biological sexes on average convey a competitive disadvantage. The new Title IX changes will need to revert if we desire fairness. Amazing how much progress can be reversed in such short order.
There's no nuance. Imene Khelif is a male, and his male physical advantage started developing in utero. Having hyperandrogenism does not make him a female. He has XY chromosomes in every cell of his body and this was established at fertilization. Being male or female is not based on testosterone levels and your initial reaction to watching a mediocre male boxer pound an Olympic female boxer was a valid reaction. These guys are getting off on pounding women. Even those with DSD's, or disorders of sexual development, are either male or female. We are not in a new world as the trans lingua malarkey has not changed the fundamentals of biology and sex, and I will never negotiate my rights as a human being and my boundaries as a female. These whining dudes that aren't good enough to compete with other men can pack sand.
If you have XY chromosomes you are male.
The Trans ideology movement is a threat to gay people, to females and to adult trans ppl who just want to pass and live their lives out of the glare of this raging controversy. The Trans cultists are not about standing up for the legal rights of trans citizens, but rather about queer ideology that requires imposing their untethered from reality ideas on children . It’s about bullying all ppl but especially gays and women into silence for fear of being called a transphobe and cancelled.They declared war on the rest of society, on children and parents . Well war they now have and wars have casualties.
Almost all these cases are male to female even though there are approximately the same number of female to male trans.
We have to keep it simple and not get bogged down in discussing testosterone levels, muscle mass and bone density and structure, To do that already cedes the ground to the activists.No males in female sports and spaces . Period.
Keeping sports and spaces safe for females is THE overriding issue.
I hear you but this athlete is a female, so we're here.
How is this person female with XY chromosomes and testosterone at high levels? Not female. Sorry.
Watch this video (not saying she should be competing but this not the same fake as Lia Thomas:
https://youtu.be/Z5HzbTpVjNE?si=ag_SQon1AHcplxGp
I’m of the opinion that athletes with elevated testosterone levels should be excluded whether from endogenous production or from doping. This keeps it a consistent policy and adherent to the principle of safety first and foremost. It’s not this athlete “ faultl” but It’s the correct decision. The world boxing assoc already excluded her . I’m told the IOC allowed it to appease the Trans activists who have outsized political, and financial backing.
I would like to hear this athlete defend her winning intellectually when she has doping levels of testosterone coursing through her veins at all times. Not very sporting of her.. Life is not fair
Thanks for engaging .Ive been a real fan , I only found you after 10-7.,
Thank you for your wonderful and powerful support of our people and the State of Israel.
Rough times ahead but we have one another.
I would be inclined to agree with this perspective
See the discussion in the comments here; it explains a lot.
https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2024/08/01/biological-men-qualify-to-fight-in-womens-olympic-boxing-woman-quits-a-fight/
She’s apparently XY with a genetic defect that interferes with the body’s ability to deal with male hormones. These people don’t have normal male genitalia (may be internal) so they look female. But they still have a strength advantage.
She shouldn’t have been competing.
There’s a discussion here in the comments:
https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2024/08/01/biological-men-qualify-to-fight-in-womens-olympic-boxing-woman-quits-a-fight/
No tne boxer is intersex but really a male.
This was the best and most clear headed take on this issue of this incident that I’ve seen so far. Great job Eve.
Agreed.
There is a reason why men don't complain when a transgender man (person with a vagina transitions to a man by surgery or drugs, or gender identity; or person born with xx chromosomes decides to compete against a person born with xy chromosomes) competes against them, and we all know the reason.
It happens very rarely. It’s almost always males identifying as females.
Riley Gaines spoke of a race where Lia Thomas ( Male selfIDing as female) as well as another swimmer female to male ID were both in the pool with the other females.!
There is a good reason why it happens very rarely, if at all. I've never heard of men complaining on those rare occasions it might happen.
I am simple minded as a college degreed biologist: a person with XY genes is a male gender; a person with XX genes is a female gender.
There is no argument that the XY configuration results in a person with greater inherent muscular strength than the XX. If one wishes to identify as a female for reasons
of gender dysphoria, I have no issue - when it comes to competition involving strength, I strongly object!
I would suggest that true females simply default to the male boxer rather than risk their lives… that way, the not-female boxers will achieve their medals by default rather than risking the lives of true females. The medals would then be of no value or significance!
The media will do ANYTHING to paint Israel in a negative light. It's nauseating. Haniyeh was no more a man of peace than I am a Brad Pitt lookalike.
R u serious!? This is garbage support women’s right stop this -athletic bs
XY chromosomes means 99.999% of the time you are a man. That gives you high testosterone levels. If you have androgen insensitivity you could have rarely a female outward appearance, XY chromosomes and high androgen levels but no uterus or ovaries , with undescended testes and you would look like a typical female externally. But no menstruation etc. This is exceptionally rare. These people don’t face big muscles and a male body habitus.
I’m sad this is where you feel you have to have a delicate touch. This is clearly a threat to women and should not be allowed. This isn’t right period and I won’t tiptoe around it playing chromosome games. It will stop when women stop engaging it. I’m more concerned about the treatment of Israeli athletes at the games and the threat of attacks from all angles of the Middle East.
Interesting but I’m not sure I’m buying the whole hyperandrogenism story. Who is saying he/she has this affliction (illness, condition) and what proof is there? Also, you are correct, there are too many unanswered questions to arrive at the truth just yet. What is the IBA test? Does this boxer have male genitalia?
I am sceptical at this point and I think I will wait and see if more information comes to light.
Also, good on Israel for getting Haniyeh.
The boxer has internal male genitalia and has been producing endogenous testosterone as a man does since puberty.
By your explanation, it sounds as if this person had a cryptorchidism that wasn’t treated as a child and was brought up as a female. If it’s true it is likely a sad case due to lack of medical care or the expense of medical care. Also, another person made an interesting comment the other day that got me thinking. They said being gay in Algeria is technically illegal and literally dangerous to your survival due to it being an Islamic country. So, if you happen to be a gay man and exhibit some noticeable female traits, you have three options: live as a heterosexual male and hope no one calls you out, flee the country or live as a female. This is pure speculation on my part, but maybe this boxer is a gay man and in order to survive, and I don’t blame her (him), she lives as a female and the IBA doesn’t want to say anything about their testing that might put this young persons live in jeopardy. I know it’s a long shot, but who knows…
It’s more than cryptorchidism. Khelif has a disorder in the development of external genitalia so no penis and something like a rudimentary vagina. So they thought this is a girl. Well until puberty when Khelif’d testicles started producing testosterone like any male would.
Think of it like this. There are 4 levels for sexual development. 1) chromosomes 2) internal genitalia (testes until late fetal life, ovaries, uterus, cervix 3) external genitalia (penis, vagina, clitoris) and 4) pubertal changes what is called secondary sexual characteristics like breasts , beard, muscles, menstruation etc.
A disorder can occur at any level. Rare but possible. I believe the boxers disorder is at level 2 in my scheme.
You very well could be right.
I’m a pediatrician. I studied this stuff and kind of thought of the 4 Levels long ago because I find it absolutely fascinating. Although all 4 levels are usually totally aligned there are finite cases where they are not. This has nothing to do with trans which would be another stage where you switch out your hormones. Which is a whole other thing.
Unlike yourself, I don’t have a medical background. I am a retired police detective so I look for a combination of evidence, human nature and motive. By all appearances, the boxer appears to have strong male physiology. It did appear (visually) that the Algerian boxer had a physical advantage over the Italian boxer. I also realize with the billions of humans in this world some are going to have unusual or rare physiology. With the lack of actual facts and evidence I will agree with your finding due to your education and experience. It’s been interesting chatting with you. Have a good day.
You must move in interesting circles. No one I know would call that butcher "moderate." There is no such thing as a "moderate" terrorist. Assume this was from the progressives or coastal elites. There were both a two state solution and a ceasefire before Hamas attacked. There would be a ceasefire if they returned the hostages and surrendered as did the Nazis and the Japanese.
SURRENDER. That word seems anathema to the wooly headed leaders around the world.
As to the boxer. That is NOT a female. It might not be a male either but it is clearly NOT a female. Look at it. Look at the structure of the arms. Look at the jawline. If anything it's more male than female but it is not a female...period. We should not be held captive by the deluded who think chormosomes can be changed with plastic surgery and make up.
I call it an it because it is clearly not male or female. What is the proper pronoun for a hermaphrodite?
The correct appellation is, indeed, hermaphrodite.
Re the term ‘cis’: https://4w.pub/cis-coined-by-pedosexual-researcher/amp/
There are large gamete people and small gamete people. That is all.
Boxing has a history of being subject to controversy regarding reglementation issues particularly with its IOC governing body. No surprise here. Emotions aside, having watched boxing matches for more than 50 years, it looked from the get go that the Italian fighter was clearly in danger in that ring. She made a very wise decision to abandon the fight after the Algerian landed that hard right hand.
The very notion that I am concerned about offending my Trans friends by posting about this on my fb page, and your headline of "stepping into the lion's den," reflect that, as a 72-year-old feminist, I am not easy with navigating this question. I do know that women must be safe to compete in sports. Your post, as well as the comments by Disa sacks, are very helpful and informed.